G'day everyone.
I am new to 6m and have only made one qso on the segment between 50.0 and 50.3 (that's the full extent of the range of my 6m rig. But I am having a blast; its a bit like fishing, throwing in a line and waiting, and waiting and waiting for a bite. Now if I were fishing for food, I would simply go along to the shops and buy a fish; similarly if I were on 6m for qso's I would hop onto the HF bands. That's my view of things at least.
Anyway, I put out cq's on 50.2 every evening and some mornings too. My qth is Brisbane, and even though I am in a fairly populated place, I have never had anyone answer. Are people just hanging out for DX or is the band in such bad shape that they simply don't hear my 10W signal? I'd love to make some local qso's as I am collecting grid squares now.
Here's living in hope ...
50.2 domestic calling
50.2 domestic calling
Grant, Brisbane, QG62ll
Achieving more with less.
Achieving more with less.
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VK4TZL
50 Mhz Calling
Hi Grant,
50.200 has been promulgated as the National Calling Frequency for some time now, but like you, I have never been able to raise a soul there.
50.110 will give much better results, and I can see nothing wrong with calling CQ on 110 and QSY'ing up the Band if you get an answer. The 50 Mhz Band Police may suggest otherwise, but it is a bit like a dog chasing its tail...we all know 110 is sacred, we all know that 200 is like a cemetary at midnight and we all know that 99.99% of operators are listening on 110!
200 gets busy in contests and when the band is open, but it appears to have never caught on as the National (local) calling frequency. No doubt I will get a rap over the knuckles for the above, but I'm on 6 to have contacts and enjoy myself and if everyone is listening on 110...well, that's probably a good place to call initially.
The secret is to move off 110 as soon as you can.
73
Glenn
VK4TZL
50.200 has been promulgated as the National Calling Frequency for some time now, but like you, I have never been able to raise a soul there.
50.110 will give much better results, and I can see nothing wrong with calling CQ on 110 and QSY'ing up the Band if you get an answer. The 50 Mhz Band Police may suggest otherwise, but it is a bit like a dog chasing its tail...we all know 110 is sacred, we all know that 200 is like a cemetary at midnight and we all know that 99.99% of operators are listening on 110!
200 gets busy in contests and when the band is open, but it appears to have never caught on as the National (local) calling frequency. No doubt I will get a rap over the knuckles for the above, but I'm on 6 to have contacts and enjoy myself and if everyone is listening on 110...well, that's probably a good place to call initially.
The secret is to move off 110 as soon as you can.
73
Glenn
VK4TZL
50.200MHz Domestic Calling
Glenn 4TZL is spot on. Multiple call frequencies don't work. No need for long calls on 50.110MHz - a brief call - establish contact and QSY well away from 50.110MHz. Forget the six metre Police. Constant listening to white noise has affected their thinking!
73 Gavin, VK3HY
73 Gavin, VK3HY
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VK4TZL
50 Mhz calling
I wondered how long it would take before we got the Band Police lecture...
73
Glenn
VK4TZL
73
Glenn
VK4TZL
Re: 50 Mhz calling
No need to go on the attack Glenn, we're all friends here.VK4TZL wrote:I wondered how long it would take before we got the Band Police lecture...
Steve is pointing out what most operators fail to comprehend - it is nothing more than simple common courtesy to QSY off 110, ASAP.
If everybody exercised basic courtesy and respect for others, then (often confusing and ignored) band planning would become academic and unnecesary.
Adam, Brisbane
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VK4TZL
50 Mhz Calling...
Yes Adam you are right,
But Steve was the one using terms like " Hard Headed Loser" and "idiots" etc.
It does not take long before this argument gets personal...over and over.
I have read and put up with people bitching about 50.110 for so many years, it has become boring. What is a 50 Mhz DXer? I have worked over 30 countries in the last cycle...am I a DXer, or just another 50 Mhz pest ?
It is almost like an exclusive Club..." Don't you dare call CQ on 50.110 unless you are into DX ".
Can one of the annointed please tell the rest of us, what a DXer is...is it the number of elements on the Yagi, or the cost of the radio, or some other qualification?
This crap has gone on for years..." Don't you dare call on 50.110 unless you are an International DXer"
I have actually met Hams who are terrified of 50.110...lest they transgress and put out a call that is not " DX ".
We should all lead by example , and call CQ till we are hoarse on 50.110...but QSY when we make contact. If we do that , the rest of " the mob" should get the idea.
What appears to be some exclusive Club of DXer's on 50.110 , I find offensive...I'll call CQ and QSY...if that offends the "Inner Circle", well, get used it .
73
Glenn
VK4TZL
But Steve was the one using terms like " Hard Headed Loser" and "idiots" etc.
It does not take long before this argument gets personal...over and over.
I have read and put up with people bitching about 50.110 for so many years, it has become boring. What is a 50 Mhz DXer? I have worked over 30 countries in the last cycle...am I a DXer, or just another 50 Mhz pest ?
It is almost like an exclusive Club..." Don't you dare call CQ on 50.110 unless you are into DX ".
Can one of the annointed please tell the rest of us, what a DXer is...is it the number of elements on the Yagi, or the cost of the radio, or some other qualification?
This crap has gone on for years..." Don't you dare call on 50.110 unless you are an International DXer"
I have actually met Hams who are terrified of 50.110...lest they transgress and put out a call that is not " DX ".
We should all lead by example , and call CQ till we are hoarse on 50.110...but QSY when we make contact. If we do that , the rest of " the mob" should get the idea.
What appears to be some exclusive Club of DXer's on 50.110 , I find offensive...I'll call CQ and QSY...if that offends the "Inner Circle", well, get used it .
73
Glenn
VK4TZL
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VK4TZL
50 Mhz Calling
G'Day Steve,
All your points noted, and basically agreed with. However, this argument has been going on for YEARS now. Who really is a DX'er on 50 Mhz ? I have 32 Countries and counting, and must say, I do not spend all my spare time listening to white noise on 50.110, but if I'm in the Shack, it is usually running. I consider anything worked from here ( QG64JQ ) DX...on whatever Band !
What it boils down to, in my opinion, is a group of hardcore " enthusiasts" for want of a better term, who consider anything that is not an International QSO to be just so much interference. I might point out I have heard numerous 50 Mhz high profile Operators natter away on 50.110 when THEY consider it is OK.
This mistake we have made...yes, mistake...of nominating a " Call Frequency" has , over the years , almost become set in concrete. The same situation that is being thrown around here happens on 144.100 on a reasonably regular basis as well...we just seem to not hear about it near as often.
I have heard 144.100 descend into an RF Sewer, where power is the only way to dig out a QSO, and even then it can become almost impossible. The smarter ones amongst us have taken to calling out " Listening on 135 " etc, and whipping up there in the hope someone heard you through all the QRM.
I can remember someone posting a picture of a VFO knob on a Reflector some time ago, and asking tongue in cheek, what it was for, in reference to a few comments about a 144.100 opening that degenerated into open RF Warfare.
Last time I worked G Land and some of Europe on 110, it was an absolute rabble...I can't remember if I QSY'd or not, but about 7000 other Operators did not bother . It really is deep in our Human Nature to NOT move...and risk missing out and having to listen to your Mates who did not miss out, but just yelled louder and more often.
As I said previously, I think the ONLY way we can hope to keep things reasonable, is to lead by example and make sure we all QSY, regardless if it is across town, or across the Equator.
This annual bleet by some about who should use 110 and who should not only brings out those who do not like being dictated to ( Who Me ? ) and perhaps a few other anti social types, who once they find out it annoys someone, will go out of their way to do just that. And...some just don't know and can be politely and gently advised of what we would LIKE to see happen.
I like think that when I am engaged in this hobby, I'm not annoying others, and really, we need the " Other end" to make it all work, so I am not going to deliberately try to annoy people...but on the other hand , I have just as much right to call on 50.110 as anyone else.
I have heard...not a lot lately...two Amateurs drivel on on 110 for 30 minutes or longer...we all have I suppose. Sometimes a polite " your on the call channel Fellas " will see them move, and sometimes it will result in a mouth full of abuse or just no comment and continuance ...thats life unfortunately.
As for the also almost annual advice of " there's plenty of room above 52 Mhz " Yes...there is, and none of my antennas work up there, and being restricted on just how much Ally I can get in the air, I have no intention of making another large air cooled dummy load for " Social Interacting on 6 Metres ".
I have never quite worked out why the low end of the 6 Metre Band is so sacred...what I have said above applies equally to any Band...we should all be striving to get on under any existing rules...Gentleman's or Official.
73
Glenn
VK4TZL
All your points noted, and basically agreed with. However, this argument has been going on for YEARS now. Who really is a DX'er on 50 Mhz ? I have 32 Countries and counting, and must say, I do not spend all my spare time listening to white noise on 50.110, but if I'm in the Shack, it is usually running. I consider anything worked from here ( QG64JQ ) DX...on whatever Band !
What it boils down to, in my opinion, is a group of hardcore " enthusiasts" for want of a better term, who consider anything that is not an International QSO to be just so much interference. I might point out I have heard numerous 50 Mhz high profile Operators natter away on 50.110 when THEY consider it is OK.
This mistake we have made...yes, mistake...of nominating a " Call Frequency" has , over the years , almost become set in concrete. The same situation that is being thrown around here happens on 144.100 on a reasonably regular basis as well...we just seem to not hear about it near as often.
I have heard 144.100 descend into an RF Sewer, where power is the only way to dig out a QSO, and even then it can become almost impossible. The smarter ones amongst us have taken to calling out " Listening on 135 " etc, and whipping up there in the hope someone heard you through all the QRM.
I can remember someone posting a picture of a VFO knob on a Reflector some time ago, and asking tongue in cheek, what it was for, in reference to a few comments about a 144.100 opening that degenerated into open RF Warfare.
Last time I worked G Land and some of Europe on 110, it was an absolute rabble...I can't remember if I QSY'd or not, but about 7000 other Operators did not bother . It really is deep in our Human Nature to NOT move...and risk missing out and having to listen to your Mates who did not miss out, but just yelled louder and more often.
As I said previously, I think the ONLY way we can hope to keep things reasonable, is to lead by example and make sure we all QSY, regardless if it is across town, or across the Equator.
This annual bleet by some about who should use 110 and who should not only brings out those who do not like being dictated to ( Who Me ? ) and perhaps a few other anti social types, who once they find out it annoys someone, will go out of their way to do just that. And...some just don't know and can be politely and gently advised of what we would LIKE to see happen.
I like think that when I am engaged in this hobby, I'm not annoying others, and really, we need the " Other end" to make it all work, so I am not going to deliberately try to annoy people...but on the other hand , I have just as much right to call on 50.110 as anyone else.
I have heard...not a lot lately...two Amateurs drivel on on 110 for 30 minutes or longer...we all have I suppose. Sometimes a polite " your on the call channel Fellas " will see them move, and sometimes it will result in a mouth full of abuse or just no comment and continuance ...thats life unfortunately.
As for the also almost annual advice of " there's plenty of room above 52 Mhz " Yes...there is, and none of my antennas work up there, and being restricted on just how much Ally I can get in the air, I have no intention of making another large air cooled dummy load for " Social Interacting on 6 Metres ".
I have never quite worked out why the low end of the 6 Metre Band is so sacred...what I have said above applies equally to any Band...we should all be striving to get on under any existing rules...Gentleman's or Official.
73
Glenn
VK4TZL
Hi once again,
All very interesting this topic and I must say, as a newcomer to 6m, it makes fascinating reading (and I mean this in the nicest possible way). My rig is a 6m monobander that tunes between 50.0 and 50.5. It puts out 10W. So when the band does eventually come to life, I am going to have loads of fun, I guess. I'll be watching this thread with interest as I certainly want to play within the accepted rules.
All very interesting this topic and I must say, as a newcomer to 6m, it makes fascinating reading (and I mean this in the nicest possible way). My rig is a 6m monobander that tunes between 50.0 and 50.5. It puts out 10W. So when the band does eventually come to life, I am going to have loads of fun, I guess. I'll be watching this thread with interest as I certainly want to play within the accepted rules.
Grant, Brisbane, QG62ll
Achieving more with less.
Achieving more with less.
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VK4CZ
- Forum Diehard
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- Location: Clear Mountain - Brisbane (Nth West) - QG62lp
- Contact:
Grant
You'll certainly hear more.... but with 10w and a dipole you'll be working a little less than others (especially when caught up in the melee that will exist on 50110KHz between the inexperienced and experienced, the selfish and collaborative, the ignorant and the educated) - but you'll more than likely be more satisfied with what you've achieved.
JA's and KH6 on CW will easy. SSB to them would also be very possible.
Central America likely. But, EU and Nth & Sth America very difficult.
I remember very fondly in cycle 22 standing on the verandah at my parents farm in QG61 and working KH6IAA on SSB using an IC-502, 2 watts and its internal telescopic antenna.... so it's all possible.
But working LU8 long-path over the north pole took the large antenna and patience!
Good luck.
You'll certainly hear more.... but with 10w and a dipole you'll be working a little less than others (especially when caught up in the melee that will exist on 50110KHz between the inexperienced and experienced, the selfish and collaborative, the ignorant and the educated) - but you'll more than likely be more satisfied with what you've achieved.
JA's and KH6 on CW will easy. SSB to them would also be very possible.
Central America likely. But, EU and Nth & Sth America very difficult.
I remember very fondly in cycle 22 standing on the verandah at my parents farm in QG61 and working KH6IAA on SSB using an IC-502, 2 watts and its internal telescopic antenna.... so it's all possible.
But working LU8 long-path over the north pole took the large antenna and patience!
Good luck.
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VK4BKP
VK4JAZ, apart from maybe long path into Europe... a dipole is a great antenna.
This last summer sporadic E season was spectacular. Some days could work all states. Some signals reaching 5x9+30dB... on a dipole.
The last F2 openings have been working Japan 5x9+20dB every couple of days... on a dipole. 49.750 pushes the meter full scale and spews vision carriers all over 50 megs.
Without actually trying have worked Japan, New Zealand, New Caledonia, Korea, California 5x7 on 10 watts SSB and... a dipole.
The cyclones around here would love a 12 el yagi for 6m and turn it into 1/4 wave segments for 23cm.
So don't despair VK4JAZ... a dipole will give you many many contacts when the time is right. Watch 11/10 metres. Watch the VHF TV vision carriers. Watch the logger. You will know when the time is right.
This last summer sporadic E season was spectacular. Some days could work all states. Some signals reaching 5x9+30dB... on a dipole.
The last F2 openings have been working Japan 5x9+20dB every couple of days... on a dipole. 49.750 pushes the meter full scale and spews vision carriers all over 50 megs.
Without actually trying have worked Japan, New Zealand, New Caledonia, Korea, California 5x7 on 10 watts SSB and... a dipole.
The cyclones around here would love a 12 el yagi for 6m and turn it into 1/4 wave segments for 23cm.
So don't despair VK4JAZ... a dipole will give you many many contacts when the time is right. Watch 11/10 metres. Watch the VHF TV vision carriers. Watch the logger. You will know when the time is right.
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VK4CZ
- Forum Diehard
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- Contact:
Kevin,
Latitude plays an incredible part in this, what you can achieve at the latitude of QG48 (21 degrees south) is vastly different to that which can be achieved at QG62 (27 degrees south), and then for VK2 and VK3 it's even more pronounced.
We cant draw comparisons between such significant variations in latitude.
Experience has shown that both at solar minima and maxima that I can work a station in W6 with RS56 reports and Adam VK4CP (just under 20kms away and similar station capabilities exist at each QTH) can't hear them... and this was also very evident over the last summer on Es when Adam was working VK3s and I couldn't hear them.
What you've achieved during this period of solar minima is fantastic, but once we move from an Es dominated propogation environment - be that direct Es modes (single or multi hop) or Es linked to TEP, etc - and start experiencing F2 (with arrival angles of ~6 - 10 degrees at 6m, then the departure angle of the dipole will be a significant impediment to those seeking to experience DX operating with stations beyond the shores of VK (and near territories) and current experiences can't be carried forward.
Regardless and what's best of all, is that we will continue to learn from those experiences and build them through the experiences in Cycle 24 and respond appropriately as we decide of the path we wish to pursue and chase it.
Latitude plays an incredible part in this, what you can achieve at the latitude of QG48 (21 degrees south) is vastly different to that which can be achieved at QG62 (27 degrees south), and then for VK2 and VK3 it's even more pronounced.
We cant draw comparisons between such significant variations in latitude.
Experience has shown that both at solar minima and maxima that I can work a station in W6 with RS56 reports and Adam VK4CP (just under 20kms away and similar station capabilities exist at each QTH) can't hear them... and this was also very evident over the last summer on Es when Adam was working VK3s and I couldn't hear them.
What you've achieved during this period of solar minima is fantastic, but once we move from an Es dominated propogation environment - be that direct Es modes (single or multi hop) or Es linked to TEP, etc - and start experiencing F2 (with arrival angles of ~6 - 10 degrees at 6m, then the departure angle of the dipole will be a significant impediment to those seeking to experience DX operating with stations beyond the shores of VK (and near territories) and current experiences can't be carried forward.
Regardless and what's best of all, is that we will continue to learn from those experiences and build them through the experiences in Cycle 24 and respond appropriately as we decide of the path we wish to pursue and chase it.
Scott, I will trade you a dozen VK3's for a W6, anyday!VK4CZ wrote:... and this was also very evident over the last summer on Es when Adam was working VK3s and I couldn't hear them.
Adam, Brisbane
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VK4BKP
Scott, what you say is correct, I realise propagation is selective. VK2/3 can be working JA and I won't hear them. Sometimes it goes right over the top. I even have a mate 5Km away and it differs even at this distance.
I'm not saying a dipole is the best antenna obviously, but I'm having fun with mine. Worked two JA1's this afternoon S9+20dB at the peaks.
I'm not saying a dipole is the best antenna obviously, but I'm having fun with mine. Worked two JA1's this afternoon S9+20dB at the peaks.
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VK2SIX
Re: 50.200MHz Domestic Calling
Maybe so, but I do have DXCC!VK3HY wrote: Constant listening to white noise has affected their thinking!
73 Gavin, VK3HY
6m dx is 90% listening 10% transmitting, knowing when to stay and when to go.
I don't care what is on .110, lets say I used not to care and may never again if I return to 'the hobby' where my business was on .107 CW taking up just a few Hz of bandwidth.
Nothing I can add here will help others' they have to work it out for themselves as I did.