ACMA replies to WIA questions on the High Power Trial

[VK5PO]

The contesters are waiting patiently for the 1kW license? Yeah, right! hihi.

I would have expected a phone call or a "visit" by now, I can almost guarantee someone would have made
reference to my 1kW license to the ACMA that clearly shows I can still run 1kW on HF.... PS, my other license with the callsign VK5SIX
has exactly the same endorsements as VK5PO, Don't forget to tell the ACMA about that as well.

Maybe I am paranoid, but it is poor how some "experts" think they know everything.

Not one apology from the detractors thus far..... Oh, I was not really expecting an apology, as these "experts" are above that.

As I stated before, in respect to EMR, the magazine that shows an op. sitting very close to the antenna (regardless of power used etc) shows that it is not something that most hams take seriously. It definitely sends the wrong picture....(no pun intended).

I hope the next trial is run with MUCH more professionalism, both from ACMA and the WIA, as it seems that it just was not the case.

Now I am going to go and find a rare station on 6m CW, work them as VK5PO, and immediately after that, "unethically" work them "again" as VK5SIX!!!
I will NOT wait for at least an hour like I did last time either....How bloody pathetic!!!! Makes me wonder what drives ops to make these libelous remarks?

Nothing like hijacking someone elses posts either!!
73, VK5PO, John

[VK5ZLR]

hey if a foundation operator can qso with the world (or so we are told) on 10W then why do advanced operators need 1000W

Indeed!
Advanced licensees, but virtue of their vastly superior technical skills, should not need more than 100w to make a contact.

[VK3BSF]

I cud QSO with much less than 10W ...so, who needs 10w??

[VK2GOM]

I've always seen QRO amps on HF as a substitute for skill, and replacement for patience.

Why wait for gaps, and keep trying, and eventually get your call heard when you can just turn up the wick and trample over everyone else that is transmitting, and you will be the loudest? There's hardly much skill in that

In 27yrs as a radio ham, I have never used more than 100W and have cracked loads of pile-ups, through judicious timing and skill. Of course there are times you don't manage it, but it's all part of the game. If it was easy, it'd be boring.

I don't see any need to change from the already too much (IMHO) 400W in the interests of keeping the bands usable. You only need one VK running needless QRO on JT65 to really spoil your session on the radio.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH

[VK4TS]

you must also give credit to the operator at the other end who can pull your signal out of the pileup..

[VK2OMD]

...
I don't see any need to change from the already too much (IMHO) 400W in the interests of keeping the bands usable. You only need one VK running needless QRO on JT65 to really spoil your session on the radio.

The intolerance of JT65 and a whole bunch of 'advanced' digital modes is due to a failure in receiver design. A receiver that adjusts gain (and so varies Noise Figure) according to signals other than the desired signal (as happens with the way conventional receivers are commonly used on these modes) is destined to cause the bitching that goes on when someone receives a strong but undesired signal, not matter how much power was used.

This is not to comment on whether we 'need' higher power or not, but to expose a real problem with most digital modes is fundamental unsuitability of the receiver design... and working around that by limiting transmitting power is a very ham approach to a receiver design challenge.

Owen

[VK4TS]

spot on as usual Owen !

It's the same scenario where Dxpeditions take mobile grade rigs with them and can't handle the pileups - use of decent rigs (K3 if portability is an issue) and rig selection could be done simply by using them in a contest and seeing how good or bad they truly are...

[VK3AUU]

Steve et al, I was merely quoting the current LCD.
Seems like the people who issue permits also need to read the LCD.

David

[VK2AAH]

I don't know Trent I get tired sometimes of those California Kilowatters... are we really going to be better off having Mooloolooba Megawatters adding to the noise floor?

Lobs hand grenade... leaves quickly...

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK5PO]

"It makes no mention of high power permits either for HF bands or for non-EME operations.

While pointing the finger at no one in particular, it would appear that some amateurs are in breach of the requirements.

David
VK3AUU"

That is quoted from the LCD David?

No LICENSE actually "says" anything about EME.... the term "celestial body" is used.

Meteors, Asteroids... as a matter of fact, ANY NATURAL OBJECT in "space" is a celestial body.

I will fire up my RF AMP next time I want to do some meteor scatter work. There are NO BREACHES in doing that.

Again you show a clear lack of understanding, sounds similar to the G0KSC comments about Justin exaggerating etc... A pattern has developed?
Obviously a little bored there perhaps.

73, John

[VK3AUU]

VK5PO
I accept your point about celestial bodies. The LCD is somewhat ambiguous.

David

[VK2JDH]

No LICENSE actually "says" anything about EME.... the term "celestial body" is used.

Meteorites, Asteroids... as a matter of fact, ANY NATURAL OBJECT in "space" is a celestial body.

I will fire up my RF AMP next time I want to do some meteor scatter work. There are NO BREACHES in doing that.

73, John

I'm no , but sure there are on here, many space experts that may be able to expand and clarify.

I believe that your 1kw permit does not allow MS.

A celestial body is one that is a natural object outside the earth's atmosphere.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/celestial_body

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth

MS propagation only comes into play once a meteor enters the earth's atmosphere and leaves a ionising trail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_bur ... unications

So it follows that once a meteor has entered the atmosphere it is no longer celestial.

[VK5PO]

Love to argue that in a court of law!

It is on WIKIPEDIA...must be true then!
John

[VK2DVZ]

VK2JDS wrote..quote,

"I believe that your 1kw permit does not allow MS".

In my case I submitted two high power applications at the same time, one for EME purposes using JT65 mode and the other for Meteor Scatter using FSK441 mode. Two separate lots of calculations were prepared and submitted. Approval was forthcoming for both for 600 watts - what I applied for.

My license states "....., for the purpose of reflecting signals from a celestial body on frequencies between...." (on the 2m band).

My 2 cents worth.

[VK5PO]

Gday Ross... Long time no speak!!!


(12 Jan, 1997 01:05z on 144Mhz)

Yes, that is what I submitted also, and did calcs for CW, SSB as well.

Cheers, John

[VK2JDS]

Hi Ross and John,

Ross I think you may have mixed me up with vk2jdh...

quote

VK2JDS wrote..quote,

"I believe that your 1kw permit does not allow MS".
unquote
that wasnt me.. and JDH hasnt seen a high power permit by the looks of it

I have a high power permit as you know, and have kept quiet on this subject. I work 23cm CW EME and have a fsk/data permit for 6m too.
A clever person at ACMA included 'celestial bodies' in the wording of the regulations for high power EME etc, thankfully, and we can benefit from his forward thinking and common sense. I met this fellow at Gippstech one year and thanked him.
The idea he had was that celestial bodies included incoming meteors, thus allowing a huge amount of work leading to the 'regular' contacts and skeds we all have today using MS.

The ACMA are very approachable fellows and if you supply the right info and are in the right location you can get a permit. But you must abide by the rules.

73 from Dave vk2jds

[VK7DX]

meteoroid = celestial

meteor = terrestial

meteorite= terrestial(already landed)

cheers
Frank

[VK2DVZ]

Apologies to you Dave and to you also John for misquoting your callsign.
Thanks Dave for additional info.

...been a long day.

[VK3ZAZ]

meteoroid = celestial

meteor = terrestial

meteorite= terrestial(already landed)

cheers
Frank

Thanks Frank.

I just know ya point the beam out THERE
and ya get answers
Could not swear they are orf any body.
Maybe its ET

[VK5ZD]

Hi

Definition of Celestial:
Oxford Dictionary: positioned in or relating to the sky, or outer space as observed in astronomy
Cambridge dictionary: of or from the sky or outside this world
Merriam-Webster dictionary: of or relating to the sky or visible heavens
Dictionary.com pertaining to the sky or visible heaven, or to the universe beyond the earth’s atmosphere, as in celestial body

My opinion is that a lump of rock from outer space is a 'Celestial Body' before and after it enters the atmosphere.
Others are entitled to form their own opinion.

These people have their high power permit issued by the ACMA. Why does it matter what the RF bounces from? Realistically they have no control over it anyway. One could aim at the moon as it rises over the horizon and end up working someone on the other side of the world via one of Roger's multi-hop Es thingumyjigs. So what? It's all illegal because the RF didn't go via the moon??? Gimme a break!

And no, I don't have a high power permit.