Amateur Licence fees - then and now

[VK2ZRH]

Organising stuff in The Harrison Family Archives yesterday, I came upon a moth-eaten copy of "Radio and Hobbies in Australia" for October 1945. Cover Price 6 pence. 44 pages, plus 4-page cover.

Inside was a feature article titled "Setting Up an Amateur Station", by one W.G. Ryan, Chairman, NSW Division WIA. I bought the mag at a NSW WIA Trash & Treasure sale, incidentally.

Clearly, amateur licensing had just been re-introduced after cessation during the war years. For those licensed pre-War, and those just succeeded in passing a licence exam, for providing the Post Master General Wireless Branch with certain particulars and, for the grand sum of 30 shillings (one pound and 10 shillings), you'd be issued a station licence and a callsign.

One pound 10 shillings for a licence (there being 20 shillings to the pound).

The average weekly wage in 1945 was some 5 pounds 10 shillings. So an amateur licence was more than a quarter of the average weekly wage, then. The basic wage was some 3 pounds 14 shillings (Gor Blimey ).

Mind you, when I paid for my licence in 1964, I eagerly coughed up 2 pounds. The average weekly wage then was 15 pounds 7 shillings.

The average weekly full-time earnings in the last quarter of 2008 was $1215.70 (ABS). If amateur licences still cost about one-quarter the average weekly earnings, we'd be paying about $304.

I renewed my licence this year for $64. About 6 shillings-worth of the 1945 licence cost. Six bob, if you like.

OK, OK. The economists are going to come out of the woodwork with numerically numismatic arguments of cost/price inflation relativities yada yada. By all means let us see your arguments. 30 shillings (plus small change) would buy you 3 copies of The Radio Amateur's Handbook (by Levinson's) - "328 pages of the most valuable data in Modern Radio Science".

However, for pensioner licensees, and self-funded retirees in these GFC times, 64 bucks bites, somewhat.

Posted in the interests of perspective.

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH

[VK4GHZ]

Interesting stuff Roger.

Let's not forget how much spectrum we actually have access to though.
What would the fee be, if we were paying anything like commercial rates?

[VK2ZRH]

You have to remember, Adam, that every band that we have which is coincident with those of other countries - wordwide - is shared - worldwide (as in, shared with the amateurs of other countries). That means, principally, 160m through 2m; even 137 kHz, now.

OK, above 2m, there's a natural geographic limitation. But then, most of our bands from 70cm upwards are shared with Aust defence as a primary user. Also, many bands from 70cm upwards have segments designated for satellite use - footnoted in the international regs and in the Australian spectrum plan.

Whether shared globally, or with defence locally, that means the spectrum is "encumbered". Sharing makes for efficient use. Economists don't "get" the principal of sharing.

The above is a simple summary of the winning argument put to the Parliamentary Secretary for Communications in 1995 when we caused a furore over the ACA's proposed $72/yr licence fee (originally proposed to be $144/yr), which was subsequently reduced to $51/yr. I was there, with David Wardlaw VK3ADW. I put the argument. Paul Elliot, the Parlt Sec asked: "Would $50 be OK?". It was and he so organised it.

Posted in the interests of clarifying the whole scenario.

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
Oh, burger - it's bedtime

[vk3six]

FCC KG6SIX $21 per ten years.
JARL 7J1BAX Y180 1 year renewal Y500.
RAA Pilots Lic $165 PA including the magazine.
CASA Pilots Lic Perpetual ANY Amendment $180.00 plus publications.
VIC Drivers Licence $150 per 10 years.
US Drivers Lic US$28 per 5 years.
FAA LICENCE Perpetual US$100.00 includes publications.
Canadian Pilots Lic $31.00 p.a.
DXCC Submission ARRL $US10.00
WIA membership $75.00 PA includes publication.
AR magazine $7 each incl GST.
ARRL membership expensive including QST unsure but approaching $100 US pa.
Price is what we pay for Administrivia.
Like it or not.

[VK4TJ]

Canadian Amateur Licence - free for life.
We had a chance to get that here, too, but WIA said no thanks.

[VK4QB]

Hi All,
Lets remember those days where there were radio listeners licence which cost around 30 shillings ? then the TV licence which
cost ? Then there were the RADIO INSPECTORS who found all the noises (and got rid of them) around the place to make it better for ALL the users of the radio spectrum. Hey, I think we got our monies worth . But now what do we get for our dollar ?? Mmmmm Its a bit hard to define. ! #%*#@%**^. (censored ) !!
. But wouldn't it be great to get rid of the trash that uses, or really, misuses, the radio spectrum.
TV is free and the ACMA falls over backwards to look after those that don't pay anything ??? Is our society so upside down, or am I a wee bit twisted ?? At least I can still build stuff that works (sometimes)
Posted for those with memories of the past
Brian 4QB

[VK2ZRH]

Canadian Amateur Licence - free for life.
We had a chance to get that here, too, but WIA said no thanks.

And for a very compelling reason, John. Not the least of which was that the then-ACA didn't want to go there.

That aside, it needs to be pointed out that the Australian radiocommunications legislative and regulatory regime is quite different to Canada's, and America's.

The "cost free" licensing framework - Class licensing - is prescriptive and restrictive, offering the least regulatory "intervention", but in doing so is very prescriptive about technical parameters and standards. This is so that the regulator - the ACMA - is able to take pretty much a "hands off" role, except at the outset of establishing a Class licence regime for particular applications or technologies. Then, the rules impose a "you cop the problems" operating regime on users. We'd have the same status as CB operators. To wit - fully technically prescribed equipment of low power and low interference potential (except to each other). Class licensing is a kind of "set and forget" regime.

Under a Class licence, call signs would be a "free for all", for example. Pick your own. And a different one next week. NO recognition of your Amateur licence status in other countries. There'd be NO build/experiment with your own rigs, amps, ATUs, modulators, whatever.

Under Apparatus licensing, the regulator knows and acknowledges that you passed a recognised qualification, who you are and where you live. A unique callsign is issued to each licensee. When you're on the air, that callsign establishes those three things. If someone misappropriates your callsign and uses it for their own purpose, you have a comeback on the regulator - the ACMA. And the regulator has an interest in pursuing the pirate.

Paying a licence fee gives the Amateur community a regular "seat at the table" in the process of deciding regulatory issues both domestically and globally. That's worth a lot for the considerable privileges we enjoy. Class-licensed CBers don't get that.

There's a whole hierarchy of rights and recognitions that attach to an Amateur licence under the Australian Apparatus licensing regime. And they're aligned with pretty much most Amateur licensing systems around the world. They wouldn't be there under Class licensing. Maybe you wouldn't miss them. But others surely would.

Some years ago, during a large, international hang-gliding event in Australia, foreign hang gliding competitors brought their own handheld VHF rigs with them for ground-to-air and other related communications. They were 2m ham rigs. WIA representations to the regulator at the time had them pretty smartly off the air. Similar incidents associated with international car racing events were also dealt with, not so long ago. So-called long-distance wireless telephone handsets operating on 2m have also been put off the air in recent years. Under a Class licence - with no licensing fee - you could forget all that.

The proponents of Class licensing for Australian radio amateurs dredged up all sorts of arguments to support their case for a fee-free licence - generally shown to be flawed or specious. All for the sake of ditching the licence fee.

It's not that a Class licence for amateurs couldn't be drafted - indeed, I have a copy of one, which was prepared (by a radio amateur, but not an amateur legislative drafter) to demonstrate that it could be done.

By all means go on blaming the WIA. But take a little time to check out why the situation is as it is - if you can put aside the "fee free" crusading rhetoric.

There endeth the sermon for today.

Posted in the interests of clarification of the issues.

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH

[VK2TDN]

Canadian Amateur Licence - free for life.
We had a chance to get that here, too, but WIA said no thanks.

And all I can say to that is Thank god they did !!!
As Roger has stated all the wonderful reasons why we should pay a licence fee ... I am thankful

NZART .. the New Zealand association did away with the licence fee and suddenly realised within a year of that,
they has also done away with all their rights and now dont have a leg to stand on.
I am very happy to go on paying a licence fee if it protects my rights to be able to "cry foul" to ACMA

cheers
Dave
VK2TDN

[VK2GOM]

UK amateur license is now free too - a license for life.

My UK call G0MOH is still valid, and registered via my parents address.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK4CZ]

The question that we should all ask ourselves is "how much am I willing to pay to keep my license (and rights attached to that privilege)?"

At $64 pa we receive absolute value if compared to the holistic package we receive.

However I believe that the protagonists of the 'free license' or ‘it’s too expensive’ debate are incredibly insular in their attitude. Seeking to reduce their own expenses they have little regard or care for the implications of doing so.... they are 100% inwardly focused. They reflect the ‘social security’ state that has been created where the true value of the services they consume are lost and the perception of their rights to that ‘free service’ is obscured so much so that the reality that the cost of their consumption need to be met by someone. The result they refuse to acknowledge is that by making something free will result in increased cost to someone or removed with the loss of that service, only to satisfy their immediate needs.

Removing or reducing the cost of the amateur license will only serve to further devalue it – in terms of social standing, increased commercial threat, quality of operator (although this could already be argued as being impacted), further reduction in support provided and the list goes on - and in time the removal of the service.

My extremely valued $64.00 incl GST p.a worth.

[VK4QB]

Hi all,
Yes, the cost of a licence is not really that great in terms of real value,(about 20 loaves of bread) but hey, we can get SOMETHING for our money. !!! This was shown with the BPL problem that arose last year,
Remember NOTHING IS FREE. ???? or, you dont get anything for nothing.
Posted in the support of licence fees
Brian 4QB

[VK4XA]

I for one am glad that we pay a licence 'fee' to ACMA each year for our licence.
And considering the amount of spectrum that we get to play in, it's an absolute bargain.

However, the same cannot be said for the cost of WIA membership which at $75.00 (Or $70.00 if you are like me, a pensioner) is excessive IMHO.

[VK6MB]

the cost of WIA membership which at $75.00 (Or $70.00 if you are like me, a pensioner) is excessive

I can't see it is when you get $77 worth (newsagent price) of magazine for your $75

73 Mike

[VK4XA]

the cost of WIA membership which at $75.00 (Or $70.00 if you are like me, a pensioner) is excessive

I can't see it is when you get $77 worth (newsagent price) of magazine for your $75

73 Mike

Thanks for pointing that out Mike.
So, If I wanted to join the WIA and did not want the magazine, would they pay me $2.00 to join them?
I think not....
I wouldn't mind the WIA fee if it was a little more reasonable or even had a substatial reduction in membership fee's for pensioners ($5.00 is in no way substantial), but they don't so I cancelled my membership earlier this year due to it being unaffordable when taken in context that the ACMA want's $64.00 a year as well.
(The blatant money grab that is the "callsign allocation fee" was the final straw that broke the camels back here)

As previously stated, I don't mind paying ACMA, at least I get something for my money which is more than I can say for the WIA in recent times.

[VK3OP]

Ah yes Brian receiving TV might be free, but the broadcasters pay huge license fees to TX,
so one way or another someone pays.
Call it a spectrum access tax if you like, remember there are only 3 things for certain in life;

1 you will be born

2 you will pay tax

3 you will die

If in doubt see rule 2

[VK4TIM]

Hi there,

We have to remember that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and if the Amateur licence were to become a class type licence, something else will have to give.

I have seen the transition across the Tasman, where Amateurs no longer have an individual licence, so if you do a search of individual licences in the MED database, there are NO entries! The question has to be asked, if you travelled to another country and had to apply for a visitor licence, the only way to prove your qualification would be to produce your exam certificate of competancy, but no documented evidence of an actual licence exists.(unless you still have a printed paper copy of your previous individual licence).

Also the fees for licencing fixed stations, be it beacons, links, repeaters, these now attract a $50 fee per transmitter, so if you have a site that has 5 beacons, same callsign, then you're slugged $250/year, and if you had say two repeaters at the same site, add another $100. Here, all beacons operating with the same callsign at the same site operate under one licence, with one fee.

About 2 years ago there was the proposal to add all fixed stations to a similar type of licence, known as a GURL (General User Radio Licence) with no cost.
Here's the catch - All licences would be removed from the database, so no record would be maintained of what frequencies were in use, so where new (commercial) licences were engineered, the Amateur equipment could not be included in the intermod calculations performed when frequencies are selected, and consequently interference may then occur on the Amateur repeater, or the Amateur repeater or beacon/link may then contribute to intermod products to poorly engineered/installed commercial equipment. In that case, the Amateur fixed equipment would be required to cease operation or change frequency, regardless of how long the Amateur station has been licenced and operating.
As a result of that, site owners that have Amateur stations located in their sites, now also find that as no licence exists, there is no insurance when problems could/would occur, Amateurs would then no longer be able to remain on site. This is a situation that nobody can live with, not the Amateurs, not the commercial boys.
Thankfully for the ZLs, this proposal was firmly rejected.

When it comes to the ZL example, where examples of regulatory non-compliance exist and can be proven, such as high powered 2m cordless phones, 147 MHz wireless headphones etc, the MED will still jump on it, and hard,
their administration will now act when any infringement occurs, in the same way if you speed and get caught, you will get a ticket with a cost attached.

When you do a comparison on what we get for the money with commercial services, we have it given to us on a plate, I'm in the commercial two-way radio industry, and one 12.5kHz FM channel in a capital city attracts many hundreds or thousands of dollars annually in licence fees.

We all need to take a look at our hobby and say to ourselves "what is my hobby worth to me?" to me, it's worth more than what we currently pay, we get a bargain. Yes, I am a taxpayer, ratepayer, I do own and run a vehicle (and pay for registration), and I brew my own beer!

Remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Tim VK4TIM.

[VE3CJO]

We all need to take a look at our hobby and say to ourselves "what is my hobby worth to me?" to me, it's worth more than what we currently pay, we get a bargain. Yes, I am a taxpayer, ratepayer, I do own and run a vehicle (and pay for registration), and I brew my own beer!

These same arguments have been going on for as long as I can remember and certainly since I was first licensed 39 years ago. If the hobby is of any REAL worth to you then the cost is immaterial! The $70 for your WIA membership is about half a loaf of bread per week, way less than a beer a week, in fact it is 20 cents a day. So every day reach into your change pocket and take out one of those shiny silver coins and ask yourself "will I get this much pleasure or value out of my hobby today?". If you say NO then maybe it's time to find another hobby.

For your $70 or $75 you get the expertise of an array of volunteers you could not dream of being able to afford if you had to pay for them. What is the experience of a Michael Owen or David Wardlaw worth? How much time and effort do VK3KAI and his team put into the magazine you say isn't worth it?

Tim has the right idea, the WIA and it operations are an absolute bargain for amateurs in Australia. Here in Canada my ARRL membership costs me $US 49 per year, of course I don't get a vote! RAC membership is $56.50 and I only get a bi-monthly magazine which is not a patch on AR and nothing like the other services I used to get from the WIA before I left VK-land. If you think $70 or $75 is too much then try some other hobby. Model railways, sailing, a Masonic Lodge, golf club, just find me something where you get that much value for $75.

John Day VE3CJO (ex VK3ZJF)

[VK2AAH]

Hi John,

My first post here as I have only just decided to rejoin the amateur fraternity after an 8 year hiatus. I am one of those middle aged men with lots of work & little time, I started out in radio as an early teen in days when radio was something remarkable to me, it prompted my choice of a career in communications that has fed me & my family well. I first was licenced as VK2ZLL in 1982, but now wear this old call VK2AAH with fresh pride. But now I've got over the friendly waffle...

As someone who was lapsed & is now reborn could I caution you to likening WIA membership with bread. One is a matter of survival, the other is not. People today look for a tangible benefit and while those you describe are, they are easily missed. I am not a WIA member & have never been having witnessed years of bickering in NSW. I am keeping an open mind as to whether things have changed, if they have I will join. I've been an ARRL member in the past because they delivered a great service & I was 15000km removed from the infighting! Bottom line for me is to see proof that the WIA is a changed beast, if it is they will get my hard earned (after I've bought my bread of course...). I don't regard $75 as a bargain by any definition, but it might be worth it.

I believe the $64 is fair value but it should be remembered that to most of us it is a luxury, and when things get tough it is the luxuries that get dropped.

I'm sorry if this sounds negative as it is not meant to be, but I feel a little reality is needed as I sense a lack of objectivity in some posts.

Regards,

Richard Cerveny
VK2AAH

[VK2ZRH]

I am not a WIA member & have never been having witnessed years of bickering in NSW. I am keeping an open mind as to whether things have changed, if they have I will join.

Well, John. "Things" have changed.

For a start, "the WIA" is now a single, national organisation. It is no longer seven "divisions" that collectively propped up, fought over, took over, pulled apart, boycotted or belittled a "federal" company (with just seven "members" ) providing centralised membership records, Amateur Radio magazine, Callbook production, representation committees/teams etc etc.

After a lapse of 10 years non-membership, and having stood skeptically on the sidelines while the "new" National WIA came into being, I joined (rejoined ) in 2008.

I went to this year's Annual General Meeting, in May. And my wife accompanied me.

After years of attending WIA NSW Division AGMs (and EGMs) and accompanying shenanigans, the "new" National WIA's AGM was a positive revelation. See viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8547 and scoll down the page to "WIA AGM (Saturday)".

It all reminds me of that old joke about colour television transmission standards:

# USA's National Television Standards Committee standard, dubbed obviously, NTSC - otherwise known as "Never Twice the Same Colour".

# The French Séquentiel couleur avec mémoire standard, dubbed SECAM - or "Something Essentially Contrary to the American Method".

# Then came the European Phase Alternating Line - PAL - or "Peace At Last".

Posted for your ruminant consideration.

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH